Right Relationship

[Dharmavidya]

For Caroline and me, tomorrow will be our 13th wedding anniversary. With that in mind, I thought that I might start a thread on the issue of 'right relationship'. In self-power Buddhism there has been a fairly strong tendency toward gender segregation and in traditional Asian societies there has tended to be male dominance in society. In developing an other power Buddhism for the contemporary world I suggest that a very different approach is called for. From observation it appears that for some people an intimate relationship constitutes a support to their spiritual life whereas for others it is an obstacle to it and, conversely, for some their spiritual practice reinforces and enriches their relationship whereas for others the practice and the relationship feel as if they are in competition or even conflict. What makes the difference? What conduces to the making of a spiritually rich relationship?

[Robert McCarthy]

hi susthama, the swines are visiting our house, but its a mild enough flu. I wrote that last idea without any reflection, in enthusiasm, but without thinking of realities for people. thats where a sensitivity needs to come in- people hurt from relationships. The phrase preaching to the converted pops up- in mirth- Surely opening to amida enhances every aspect of life- including noticing mara more intensely. I feel or is it believe hmmm trust this. That first shinjin post i made, stays very fresh, alive and marks a change from belief to faith- but such intensity so easily we can fall in on ourselves. I guess it is conditional only to our perception, in that sense. but in the reality of life it is unconditional.

[Susthama]

oh dear - sorry to hear about that though it's probably better to get it early than later. Apparently, the number of cases of swine flu in the UK is increasing and has reached more than a thousand with one death.

It sort of feels one has to be more careful how to express things when it comes to relationships which makes it sound like we are talking about right speech now.

And when it comes to right speech - well, this is where we see just how bombu one really is. Too bad it usually comes after we've said something that might have or in fact has upset someone else.

Namo Amida Bu

[Tara]

I am finding this thread really interesting. For my partner and I, we are realising how much our relationship is a kind of practice in itself. Learning to really love someone is tough work! In intimate relationships we can't avoid seeing how we really are, so much is tested: our patience, our good will, our strenth, our faith. We find out how selfish we are, how hard it is to put someone else first, how difficult it is to truly share with another. Yet, we also experience what it is like to be loved, held, accepted and cherished just as we are. Knowing that we are lovely to someone, even with all our flaws, is so beautiful. It feels like it could be a taste or an echo of Amida's love for us.

For me, being in a relationship with someone who is also committed to living a spiritual life brings a special gift of being able to share the most important things in my heart and being understood, supported and encouraged. In this way it adds a richness to my practice, but it can also be a distraction. It is easy to get caught up in the everyday things of relationships and to lose the discipline to practice regularly. Perhaps relationships are a mixed blessing for a spiritual life, but what an opportunity to put our practice into practice!

[Robert McCarthy]

Dear Tara, After finishing the morning dishes, and while a nice vegan pie is cooking for my breakfast I came to this relationship discussion ready to reply to dharmavidyas original post, but first i read what you say and this is just where i also discuss
But i make this more practical than i have done before. If i was single i could practice whenever it seems right, create a wonderful environment. etc etc. and as i write my partner gets ready to go out, my daughter gets ready for school- i need to finish the post as i start. In a monastic life people committed to the path come together, create together within their vision. My family role is primary housekeeper, only driver etc. There is no particular daily routine, so some days can organize so as plenty of time for practice, some days its evening before i make sure of the time for practice.
does family sort out my preciousness, feelings of entitlement- what a classroom! ever had the silent seething feeling while your teenage son plays computer games all day watching you do all the housework. etc etc. Then when you would want to go into mindfulness, its not the situation to do so. and so what? Family is close intimate living that constantly shows me my bombu nature, my pettiness and my inability to rise from it.
and where to go?. everywhere we are we try to create pureland, not falling over because it doesnt seem so pure. in love not in pride, and only through nembutsu. ok gotta go now. namo amida bu

[David Chapman]

I have not read this entire thread, but I find it very refreshing and insightful, thank you for sharing it. I am a working husband and father of four.
My middle son is very frail and very susceptible to sickness, he was in the hospital a little over a month ago, my daughter was born two months premature and had to spend a month and a half in the hospital, being only three pounds, and my wife has had some troubles that were contributing factors to this that we have been trying to work out.
It has been a rough road that has lead both of us down many paths. I am uncertain I can honestly go to someone whom has not experienced this themselves, however, I do feel there are some people who can gain insights into this if they remain open and reflective.
I cannot see a Priest whom is celibate regarding marital issues, just as I would not see a divorced psychologist to save a marriage.
That is not to say that I am advocating people go out and do drugs to treat drug habits, but those that have this insight by direct experience seem to be better equipped for the job.

A father can understand a father. A husband can understand a husband, and a former addict can understand a former addict.

[Robert McCarthy]

Dear David, I am sad to hear of your circumstances David and not really knowing where to turn. I have sat for a long time looking at your post, waiting to find a response. It is a strong statement that you write of the fragility of your own family in this website, that you find the words, the trust.
My comments refer back to my circumstance, Also such fragility in family for me, over many years but in the last few weeks events and news that are very painful, a life so in the balance. But I could only talk about this directly to someone i know, i find my boundary with ning.
Dharmavidya recently wrote of his approach to therapy. Maybe this helps a little. If we find someone who has experience in what concerns us, maybe we are more lead to follow their path, maybe the energy becomes more directive. I think Dharmavidya wrote of an approach that helps throw light on the circumstances, to help find understanding. A father, a husband and addict may not be able to let go of their personal pain, I know this from direct experience.
Best wishes in your difficult path David Namo Amida Bu

[Susthama]

Dear David,

thank you for sharing this with us. Life can be so fragile and precious and what you've written and experienced as a father taking care of such precious tiny people is moving.

There are so many levels and aspects to any given relationship in this complex web of life that bring a certain amount of challenges, joy and suffering.

I agree with you that there is an affinity that exists between people who have experienced a similar thing or gone through a similar process. And yet, there is also some beauty and magic when people who have had different experiences come together and share their experience as you've done here. The human experience is so vast and to find a way to express and communicate an empathic response seems to be an important aspect of the spiritual path.

[Katrien Sercu]

Dear all in this discussion,
I find a relationship one of the most difficult things in life. I had several but they all stop ...Until now I'm not able to stay rightup in a relationship. I recognise the sharing of David Chapman: heavy difficulties with your own children is a big pressure and challenge. When getting children is a battle between life and death (like it was with my 2 children; the 3' was better), then the children came for me, as mother, on the first place..and the relationship died: now energy, no time, no place, no power.
Another aspect is being able to stand by oneself in relation to a partner: not too much inside and not too much outside: a middle way, in between, in the light of something bigger. This asks a whole path ...Also to trust another person, so intimate!? Not simple. I find it more simple to trust the Totality than one person.This is sad: a relationship can be so beautiful and rich, a source of life, joy and growth, an exercise in trust, openess, goodwill, other power and humility; I could experience this often for a time and then trust stops; flight was stronger than the willingness to stay and to try again. Sad and real. A right relationship is an ideal for me and I hope maybe it comes, when I have enough trust in life and people, by the grace of Amida. To share this strenghts this longing, without pressure. Namo Amida Bu

[Katrien Sercu]

Yesterday I replied on the last comments of this discussion, without reading the beginning words of Dharmavidya. I know when I want to have an relationship who feels good, then it must be a spiritually rich relationship. I had an relationship with a very strong engaged man.. on a communistic way. I felt emptiness, sadness, alienation, altought it was a good man. We were on holiday together and I need to read 'the feeling buddha' to help to remember me the sense of life. This difference between us gave a gap without bridge. What was essential in my life was strange and bad for him. So this relation had no root or food...it died.
In a 'right relationship' it seems to me that two persons meet and recognise their spiritual life in the other: they feel the grace of Amida between and around them, as the sun. In the bigger mind and the open heart, in willingness and grace, in love and difference they encounter what could be unconditional love, on a foolish being way, in moments of openess and also isolation. I experienced this in a relation and I know that this gave support to spiritual life, like a mini-sangha. The eyes of the other give awakening on a wholesome way. This is also possible with friends, but more intimate nearness works deeper and stronger, inevitable and more continual. I had the deep experience that it is better to stay alone than to live in a relationship without shared spiritual life. This feels as if spirituality is cutted of, what gives deep sadness and a feeling of senseless. Namo Amida Bu