responses to violence

[Robert McCarthy]

i hope to find ideas and to find heart in how we respond to an actual violent situation. we are present and people are being seriously injured in the present moment. what is compassionate action?
a situation to consider. my daughter witnessed a gay man being bashed unconscious by a gang of four drunk men on a train recently. please consider what you might have done, what would be compassionate action here? consider how this might change if the men were armed, and also how it might have changed if there was only one attacker. there is a very strong chance we will find ourselves in a similar situation. as engaged buddhists we may even place ourselves in such danger.

[Katrien Sercu]

Dear robert, i read this post some weeks ago and i feel that i try to deny it. But that's too easy...because we really can get in such a situation. So being prepared by thinking/feeling about this discussion can be good. Imagining this situation, i first feel the fear for my own instinctive reflexes, that i have not under controle in new situations. Shall i flight or fight, driven by fear for my own safety or by a great indignation for injustice in this situation, where i'm part of? I really don't know...but maybe the general way of life will influence this a bit: am i driven in life by hate or by love in general and in specific situations? What awakes me to act? That's a daily question in basic attitude: am i open for Amida in what happens?
Beneath the unknown first refexes, i feel the strong need to do something to STOP this violance. Imagining this, when i feel a 'stop' with love as source, then it can be very strong, much bigger than i'm. When i feel hate as source to act, then i feel the tension of my own agression, what gives me fear...so i become more little than i'm: less powerfull. What source works in a good sense...a good question beneath the reflexe question...and again, i have no answer.
How creative can we be in trying to STOP this...as a woman against 4 men? I don't think robert that violance from me -if i should be able to; i don't know- in this situation has any sense. But how could we disturb what happens, leading away attention to something others, by screaming or asking people for help or...calling ..maybe all useless...but the attempt to disturb the situation is the only think i can imagine, with the possibility that danger turns to others or to me. So the situation changed for the person who was attacked, but the violance goes on...no stop. Very difficult.
Is it possible or meaningfull to look to violance as you describes, while doing nothing, as if we are not part of the situation? I don't think so...but what is helpful?
Big question...i can only try and hold amida's hand. Maybe this gives a right action in such situation, unknown now?

[Robert McCarthy]

dear katrien, so difficult isnt it. act in love, hate or fear- fear would take me. i try to think from all i know of buddha from dharma, from talks, what might buddha do? to stop the suffering, somehow i think he would take attention to himself, a loving presence. and an act full of danger when hiding feels so much safer. it seems for any of us bombu to get noticed, to disturb, would be to be bashed also. maybe that is showing love, well it seems to be showing love more than looking the other way. to try to physically stop the attack would require much violence, and futile with four attackers. but this is very real, what is right action? thanks katrien for going here

[Dharmavidya]

Yes, it is impossible to know what is the right thing to do without actually being there, but he scenario does throw up the issue of one's own fear and its effect and one's own lack of intelligence and incapacity to know what actually would be the one thing that might make a difference. Perhaps simply standing up and saying, this is wrong. Objectively, one can say that the more successful one was in keeping one's cool the more likely one could be useful rather than inflammatory, but how much are we capable of doing so in such a situation? How does our faith operate in such a circumstance? A koan for us all.

[Robert McCarthy]

thank you dharmavidya, this discussion is opening for me a middle way, but one far from clear still. the fight or flight response- powerful vedana- so easily takes us. but in metta, to act in metta despite our fear, that shows us our faith. maybe from there we can ease suffering. To visualise such a situation is very useful for us, and powerful. To do so may lessen the power of vedana if such a situation comes our way, and is a koan that we may learn from.