an observation

[Susthama]

I've just finished reading the discussion thread on 'What's Buddhist about Engaged Buddhism' and found it wide ranging and thought provoking in many ways.

But one of the reasons for starting this thread was to share my observation that out of 27 replies only 2 were from women. I don't know if there is anything worth discussing here and so I thought I'd check.

[Robert McCarthy]

Dear Katrien, so pleased to read your post. I sit in the same place as you. I believe that a discussion group for us folk- people finding faith but apart from flesh and blood friends who have already made the journey- would be a significant help on our journey.
I just realise how i fall over. i visualize negatively, not purposely i might add. but i simply cannot believe that i am the person who can reliably choose to ignore the three poisons. then back to living in them. my faith needs to grow.
Please start this group Katrien, I for one will be there. Namo amida bu

[Susthama]

Wonderful to read and to be able to share not only the joys of this path together but also some of the difficulties in applying or even just talking about Buddhism in our daily lives.

I'll happily fall over with friends like you around me - and thank goodness for Amida - who seems to provide a cushion every time I fall over.

[Marjolaine Hohberger]

maybe cultural women are busy to internet. And everything is an illusion, they may well be reading..
There are very different levels of women participation... but yes I wish it were not like this.
Still the idea that ' we in the west or so called first second world' are advanced also tricky...
It is almost like institutionalized racism people are too scared to even admit it something like that.
Here in Nepal women are in the kitchen, some though on motorcycles and going to offices....In Latinamerica it is very different we have a very happy creative womens movement !
happiness helps there is enough suffering....
thank You!!namo

[Susthama]

Hi Marjolaine,

Thanks for this - not sure I got exactly what you meant - what is the connection between being busy and illusions?

Generally, I agree that traditional roles still exist especially in asian countries and are divided so that women do the housework and men go out to work. It would be great to reach a stage where men and women everywhere in the world could share the jobs around the house and work so that either sex could engage in a way that is meaningful and that also contributes to a sense of well-being in society and families.

[Marjolaine Hohberger]

Thank you Susthama, now I am back from Nepal in my own home the couple that are mother and second father to 2 of my boys have this kind of marriage where he has to drive the old taxi and phones to get his food ready....

these kind of things, in the end they also became like my kids, but it is the concept of traditional roles within ourselves which wears off on the kids, boy will put food all over the house, girl gets dressed in princess robes, boy is happy, girl gloomy....

If I learned anything from being with children it is THIS that we are the same okay there are differences, but I do admit having had prejudices as we did from my times in feminism. We are all creative, loving people, but patterns are hard to beat....
They could if they would I had to slap my boys for exploiting their mum.
And they thanked me for stopping their parasiting her, there had been accidents in the home because the mother was overworked not thinking to involve 4 teenagers who are also able to coock, and so on. And more happy to . A typicali nepali man sits to be served food throws clothes in a corner mum washes them on saturday.
Then play games and chat with girlfriends.
And then never at home because redundant. We as women need to change not just drive the car, but raise our sons as better people. It is not easy. Namo Amida Bu

[Robert McCarthy]

Dear Marjolaine, sometimes things get very complicated, muddied and we learn in how they turn around. I am male and have two adult daughters. I shared a good feminist perspective with my ex partner, we each took turns at being house person until we organized to both be always in the house. Now I share the house with a teenage stepson from a traditional culture. He is a very pleasant young man but expects to be indulged, his due from culture. I learn from my resentment of this, powerlessness even, how readily i assume my feminist culture is superior. And yes i could easily mount a good argument of why my social beliefs should prevail. But until this situation I had not really understood how easily i could feel that west knows best.
In my situation, surrender is best and well he helps a little around the house. Maybe he will notice I am more than happy being the house person,

[Marjolaine Hohberger]

matriarchy is in the stone age, but still yeas women are often single providers in the family unit as Obama says we need responsable fathers to turn off the tv.
....
namo amidabutsu

[Katrien Sercu]

Hello Marjolaine, as belgian Amidafriend (neighbours of Netherland) i want to say 'goedendag en welkom!'. I write in flamish english, sorry.
By your words and the words of Robert ('west knows best') i realise that i would react primitively with "of course femenism and more equality is better"...but yes...this are our patterns and they are hard to beat. When i was married or later in a relationship with a man and i met masculin authority and fixed roles as parents or partners, i always get furious and disappointed: how is it possible that this still exist. As mother with 3 children i could educate them in equality, insofar i'm aware of it. But all over the world it still exist and when you really meet it in life, like you and like Robert with his stepsun (and much more people) i guess you have to go a long way to encounter this on a good manner...I understand your rsentment in this case Robert and i appreciate your attitude of surrender and fel happy with little steps. Namo Amida Bu.
But beneath this differences in roles between man and woman, i see also a difference in interest and way of coping with life. So the men and woman who use internet, who read and write on ning, what are they looking for or what do they want to share? When i met ning in april 2009 (not so long ago) i read mostly theoretical or Dharma-questions and discussions. I felt lost in it: it is interesting, but it is not that what inspires me (altought it can be inspiring!). Sharing about the daily practice, use an insight and the Dharma for this daily practice and so wide and clarify the body, speech and mind is more my way and maybe more a femal way? I don't know if i can generalize it? It's interesting how different people connect with different discussions!
If we did a study as observation about this on ning, i wonder what would be the participation of man and woman in different discussions. Until later!

[juditta Ben David]

Well, I'm not sure this is in reply to the above question, still I would like to bring to your attention another Gender imbalance in the Buddhist community. Just received a letter from Thanissara, a long time student and teacher in the forest tradition, which I would like to paste here as it is... your attention and reflection please. thanks Juditta

Dear friends,
I invite you to consider signing this petition http://new.ipetitions.com/petition/bhikkhuni-ordination/
You will see that it is an expression of concern and disagreement in view of:
the lack of acknowledgment regards the legitimacy of the recent Perth Bhikkhuni ordinations undertaken by Ajahn Brahm by the Forest Sangha elders

Ajahn Brahm's consequent expulsion and the delisting of Wat Bodinyana from the lineage of Ajahn Chah
the un-negotiated 5 point agreement placed upon the nuns at Chithurst and Amaravati monasteries by the UK male elder council. The UK nuns signed under pressure, in an atmosphere of secrecy, having been made clear to them that no further ordinations would happen without their consent to these five points (which mirror the garudhammas but go further in disallowing them from seeking Bhikkhuni ordination)
This is challenging territory. In the transmission of the Buddhadhamma in the West, in which the monastic community plays a vital role, a culture of dissent is not usually encouraged, or necessarily seen as conducive for practice. However there are moments when right speech is not silence, but is challenge and a respectful invitation into dialogue. I believe in the light of these recent events, this is such a moment.

Over 30 years, inspired by meeting Ajahn Chah in the UK in 1977, and consequently visiting Ajahn Chah's first Western nun Kum fa at Wat Nanachat; further since ordaining as one of the first four nuns in the UK in 1979, I have been party to both the extraordinary blessings of the dharma transmission of this lineage, but also very sadly, the painful and complex ambivalence regards the placement of nuns within this same order. This has had repercussions for women lay practitioners as well as implications for the wider community.

With the recent events mentioned above, I believe we have reached a possible 'zeitgeist' moment when much that has been held in the shadows can come to light. At the very least, a positive outcome of this petition and further letters to the Western elder council would be an open space for considered, wise and compassionate dialogue within the four fold sangha regards the issues contained within the petition.

Thank you for your kind attention
in dhamma
Thanissara
www.dharmagiri.org

This site on Face Book 'Women & The Forest Sangha' has relevent links to all sides of the discussion posted on its Discussion Board.
http://tinyurl.com/yzdukao

[Modgala Duguid]

Yes Juditta - this is as I would see ity another disgraceful act towards women. There is prejudice in many sanghas but in the Theravadan tradition it is most obvious. I am intersted in what I will learn at the sakyadhita conference in vietnam about the current situation in many sanghas. Namo amida bu modgala

[Robert McCarthy]

i have just read an article in the bangkok post about this issue-http://www.bangkokpost.com/blogs/index.php/2009/11/20/sangha-split-...
i hope it opens ok,

[Robert McCarthy]

Thai Buddhism is so patriarchal. So much pain brought to so many people in the name of Buddha. It is right to strive to change this situation, and much more possible from the practice in a Western country.