Being Vegan

[Zee-Zee]

I would like to start a discussion about veganism including the challenges and joys of being vegan, how to go vegan and the ethics of being vegan. Maybe it will also include discussing things like the first precept and veganism or the merits of vegitarianism versus veganism.

I would like to start the discussion by picking up several comments from the comments wall.

On 18 April 2009 Franco Acquaro said:
I have been a vegetarian for most of the last 15 years. I have been seriously considering Veganism. It seems appropriate in so many ways...ethically, nutritionally, ecologically, etc. Yet, I find it a daunting prospect and I am finding resistance within myself to committing to it. Would others care to share their feelings, experiences on the matter....

On 18 April 2009 Mervyn Carter replied:
Thanks to Franco Acquaro for your thoughts on veganism, and Greetings, Friend

Veganism has so many benefits, to health, ethics and the environment, I strongly feel it's the truly skillful way to feed oneself. As a rough figure, veganism creates about one third of the resource use of vegetarianism - one fifth that of meat-eating - a bigger reduction than one might think

Of course, you aren't compelled to go to 100% vegan straight away - few people do that. How about making one vegan meal per week to start ? Choose a weekend and spend time creating something that's really tasty, nourishing, beautiful - something that you can really enjoy. Perhaps drop one non-vegan item from your food stocks, something that you are not so attached to. Build up to Vegan Weekends, then move on as your skills and enjoyment of vegan cuisine blossoms. Slowly work your way towards the target of mainly vegan food, and don't feel you've got to beat yourself up if eat a slice of non-vegan cake once in a while

It doesn't matter so much how high up the mountain you are. It matters more whether you're climbing, or falling !

Bon appetite !

Mervyn Carter
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Veganism means never having to explain to an animal why your
lunch is more important than its life
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on 18 April Zee-Zee also replied
For a few years I was only "vegan at home", as thought it would be too difficult when outside my home. When I finally made the shift to being fully vegan I found it easier than I thought it was going to be.

For the first year I decided to write in a little note book any time I was not vegan. Not to beat myself up but to see if there were any patterns and particularly challenging situations. At the end of the first year there was only one entry in my little note book!

How hard being vegan would be for you depends on your lifestyle, what sort of friends you have and whether you have any cravings for dairy containing foods for example milk chocolate. What do you think would be the most difficult about going fully vegan?

[Zee-Zee]

Why be vegan?

It gives a more equitable sharing of global food supplies for a growing global population.
Being vegan has a smaller environmental footprint.
Being vegan shows more compassion for animals.
It is healthier than being vegetarian or meat eating.
As cows and other ruminants produce a lot of methane which is 20 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, being vegan helps prevent climate change.

Are there other reasons?


Apart from the perception that being vegan is "too difficult" are there any reasons for Buddhists to be vegetarian rather than vegan?

[Madrakara]

From being a meat eater, I was motivated by ethical concerns to go vegan. I thought - and still think - that if you're concerned about animals then vegetarianism which retains dairy and other animal derived products doesn't make much sense. You can argue that to rear a cow with kindness then slaughter it, store and live off it's meat involves less cruelty overall that supporting modern dairy or egg production which involves relentless heartbreaking cruelty on a daily basis as well as a miserable and early death. I don't agree with treating sentient beings as a cog in an heartless industrialised production system - whether or not they are killed in the process of extracting the 'goods' or not!

Love,
Madrakara.

Zee-Zee said:

Why be vegan?

It gives a more equitable sharing of global food supplies for a growing global population.
Being vegan has a smaller environmental footprint.
Being vegan shows more compassion for animals.
It is healthier than being vegetarian or meat eating.
As cows and other ruminants produce a lot of methane which is 20 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, being vegan helps prevent climate change.

Are there other reasons?


Apart from the perception that being vegan is "too difficult" are there any reasons for Buddhists to be vegetarian rather than vegan?

[Mervyn Carter]

Reasons to be vegan:-

There's a good overview of the reasons to be vegan on an American video on YouTube:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=dMyJNR2DrfY

[Best not to watch it while eating a meal of meat ! Not, in my view, suitable for children]

Cheers all

Mervyn

[Franco Acquaro]

Aloha Zee-Zee, Mervyn, Madrakara!

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions on this topic...!

Aloha & Namo Amida Bu,
Franco

Amida Hawai'i -Amida USA

[Robert McCarthy]

About six years ago i changed back to being veggie after being vegan for many years. I had developed pernicious anaemia. Maybe the diagnosis was wrong, maybe it was correct but the cause wasnt dietary. Im fairly sure your can be veggie without killing, but it does mean of course that we take more from animals.
For me, I still dont feel much pleasure in eating eggs, dairy, but thats where i am. namo amida bu

[Kuvalaya]

Hello all. I find this an interesting discussion as it mirrors the veganism thoughts that I've had going through my mind lately.

I've been vegetarian for several years now and have not given serious thought to veganism until more recently. Just some thoughts rather than a coherent statement on my relationship with it:

I lived for a few months in Ecuador in 2006. During my time there, for whatever reason, I became extremely sensitive to all dairy products and they would make me ill for days at a time, I think "violently ill" best describes it as I've never been in so much pain from a stomachache. This took many months to go away and I'm not sure if it has even now as I am still sensitive to dairy (though not nearly to the extremes as before!!). I monitor and limit my dairy intake. You would think this would push me into becoming at least dairy-free in my diet if not completely vegan, but it hasn't! Strange, no? I find that I'm very adjusted to the food routines in our life and there is a lot of dairy. Milk and cereal/porridge for breakfast, lots of cheese varieties, yogurt drinks. These are all things that I have no good reason to continue since I still struggle with dairy and, other than the cheese, I don't particularly even enjoy these things. I was put off my cereal this morning through just general unenthusiasm for the dairy to enter my stomache and because I know that I'm using milk for which, in all likelihood, a calf has been taken from its mother to become veal.

I love to bake and have recently started experimenting with vegan recipes and have found some vegan cakes that i like more than the non-vegan varieites!

It's as though I've managed to take the veggie step but can't get the other foot off the ground towards veganism and the only exuse I can come up with is our food routine!

I know it's something that I should be looking into more closely, keeping in mind Robert's story. Each person's body is different and we have to care for it as is necessary. I think that any lifestyle change should be done gradually. I became vegetarian gradually over several years, paying close attention to what I was replacing the meat with. I think that the small steps that you've suggested Zee-Zee and Mervyn are a good place to start and provide time for reflection that you are still nourishing your body properly.

Vegan at home or vegan for a day? I think vegan for a day is a good place to start as it will give me a chance to experience different meals and different situations where veganism might be a challenge.

Any thoughts?

Namo amida bu

[Robert McCarthy]

hi Rachel, i didnt really do any planning and yes i got sick. Somewhere around 1980 i was working with several philosophy students and after a discussion throughout one morning I thought okay going veggie sounds right. I never planned to be be vegan but realized maybe around 1990 I had become vegan unknown to myself. I just didn't like eating dairy or eggs and had evolved into alternatives without realizing what I had become. best wishes for your choices Namo Amida Bu

[Franco Acquaro]

As I continue to wage the debate (with myself) on whether or not to go veganism...I do wonder about one particular point -

Why do vegans not find it acceptable to use products that come from animals (honey, milk, eggs, etc)...assuming one can obtain them from a source which is not exploiting the animal? Granted, most farming practices are exploitative...but not all appear to be. I live on an island in the middle of the Pacific (e.g., a friend has free ranging hens that lays eggs...there is a small family-owned goat farm that appears humane and generates goat milk and goat cheese...a nearby rare, protected keawe forest that produces white hawaiian honey, etc) where some food items might be obtained without exploitation. These animals do not appear to be any more exploited than my own domesticated cat of 20 years. Any thoughts on this question? Actually, I feel like my cats been exploiting me over the years...but that's another story....

[Robert McCarthy]

Hi Franco Actually I suspect the one animal flesh many vegans may be happy to eat is those dam cats. Within the vegan community you can find a degree of preciousness But that is only one small part- most vegans are very caring people who do not wish to burden our non human beings with pain from our consumption.
I had a friendship with a vegan woman friend who took me along to her vegan group dinners when she discovered i was vegan. The evenings were spent intensely examining areas where any potential slip up could occur. It was a little odd to me. But if a food doesnt cause any pain or exploitation and it is satisfying and healthy, that is fine with me. There is some equivalence i believe with those in Buddhist circles who seek their own perfection and my new chums in the vegan group. Namo Amida Bu

[Susthama]

Things that I've read say that the following happens in the production of dairy products:

The mother cows often suffer ulcers and other sores from being over-milked and aren't allowed time to heal before being milked. Calves are taken away from their mothers at a young age and slaughtered. There are many kinds of hormones found in milk that shouldn't be there and can cause health problems to humans.

There was a farm, several years ago, that was exposed after it was found to be selling free-range eggs but had in fact another chicken farm hidden behind the gates where lots of hens were kept in cruel and unhygienic conditions to produce eggs.

In the production of honey, most bee farmers kill the bees after one season.

So these are just a few reasons from literature that I've read in the past that make them unacceptable to Vegans but as you have written, one wonders whether even a Vegan would reconsider if the practices and the products were healthy and ethical.

[Robert McCarthy]

Well this bombu needed reminding of the inherent cruelty especially in dairy- and lying about free range i feel in endemic. I understand again how i selectively ignore reality in self justification of my lifestyle.
So I am vegan now- long term changes in my lifestyle usually happen in the moment. Of course i take responsibility for my health and will research more how to remedy problems. Its an easy decision because i always sense a small revulsion in those products anyway and consumption has been fear based. Thank you for pointing this out Susthama namo amida bu

[Kuvalaya]

It's interesting because this makes me think about why I would I become vegan, what are my reasons behind it? Becoming vegetarian was straightforward - not to harm sentient beings. And I think that veganism has the same motivation for me. Like Susthama gave clear examples of, production of these products exploits the creature that is comes from.

But then I think on my family, most of whom are farmers. Were I to live near my parents, I would probably happily take some eggs from their chickens. We joke that their chickens live in the Hilton of chicken coops, and it's true. Make the door big enough for me to fit through and I'd happily move in! (who needs running water anyway, they've got electricity for the winter so that's good enough!)

So perhaps veganism in today's society is like taking a stand againt the METHODS more than the products themselves? We cannot be sure of the conditions, even with a "Free Range" packaging so we steer clear. I think that it's possible to consume many of these products (perhaps not all) without exploiting the animal. But it would require a massive shift in the food industry as well as in our thinking about food and our rate of consumption.