Curious about counseling/therapeutic/buddhist response to spousal abuse...

[Lisa McCann]

Hello! I would like to hear your thoughts about a situation I encountered a few years ago at a sangha meeting. At this twice monthly meeting, which takes the format of sitting meditation/walking meditation/sitting meditation followed by serving of tea and discussion.

On this particular Sunday evening, we had a visitor, a young woman who appeared to be in the midst of a pretty distressing life situation. She confessed to the group that she was being abused by her husband, and asked for our help regarding how to cope with her predicament. To my horror, a number of men in our group suggested that she "be open to what was going on" and one person offered the possibility that she herself could be responsible for "upsetting her spouse." As the only other woman at the meeting, I was devastated. I talked to the woman after the meeting, and we never saw her again.

I was so sad to think that Buddhism could be used, it seemed to me, to almost justify oppression, and I found myself to be more and more distant from the folks there. I also wondered what level of support I would receive as a member of the group were that to be my situation (luckily, it isn't--my husband is wonderful and we have been happily married for nearly 30 years). I just couldn't support a faith that would give this kind of counsel as a response to suffering. And I am sad that the woman went away feeling pretty dejected and hopeless.

I didn't know where to post this message, and finally decided that it belonged here since this group is categorized partly as "pastoral care." I would welcome your thoughts on the subject.

In Gassho,

Lisa

[Kaspalita]

Hi Lisa,

I don't know what the 'right answer is, but I appreciate the difficulty of the situation you encountered - I've met a small number of people in the situation you describe, before and after becoming a Buddhist, and in my most recent encounter I found myself feeling very powerless to help the individual. Partly because they felt like they had explored all possibilities and none were what they wanted - but what they wanted was for their partner to suddenly transform into someone they weren't, and it was unlikely this was going to happen - and yes, by staying in that situation, and perhaps by how they were reacting they were helping to keep the cycle going.

I don't mean to imply that they were entirely responsible for the situation by any means, and if the response you described above, from the men in the group, really was "it's happening to you, it must be you fault" then this really is going too far.

Buddhism clearly talks about our conditioned mind, and we are conditioned both by our own thought patterns and actions, and by things in the world around us. There's a real mix of internal and external conditions, things we can have some control over, or influence, and things we can't.

I hope this doesn't come across as a justification for oppression - more that some of the potential to change an oppressive situation lies with the oppressed party. But I think this requires a great psychological strength, that someone in this situation may simply not have, and where do you draw the line? It's a judgement call, if the person is being physically harmed, (or even is some cases, emotionally harmed) the best thing is to get to safe place.

In the situation I recently encountered, this person was unwilling to consider this as an option, then you heave to think about other ways of supporting them, sometimes just listening, sometimes helping them explore different ways of reacting.

I suppose I want to underline again that if this leads to a master/slave relationship or something, it's not the way to go at all, and perhaps this is what you were afraid would be happening above? That being open to changing to 'not upsetting her spouse" would result in an abusive relationship of a different kind....

I think I also want to say that in any situation where someone is depressed/dejected/going through some grief or stress, and important question to have in mind is something like, where does this person find meaning in their life, what's important to them - where do they place their faith?

I think the situation you described is difficult, what if someone does open up, and you don't know what to do, or no one in your group has experience in this sort of thing? Maybe just really listen - it might be that they haven't told anyone this before and that just talking about it can help them.

One time, I spoke to someone for a long time, on the phone, they were very upset, and at the end of their conversation told me about their abusive relationship - then they quickly ended the call. I never heard from this person again, but I could feel that it was an important step for them just to be able to tell someone. And a powerful step, once someone has opened up in this way, very quickly, you may not see them again....

I should say that I don't have a lot of experience in this area at all really, but I hope this helps a little. I'm really sorry to hear that in this case the lady went away feeling awful, it's hard to know exactly what one can say - the situation they are in is really awful, so of course they will feel bad, sometimes we just need to find a way to hold them

[jill]

hello. i found this network because i've been feeling VERY stuck with a situation involving my husband's mom. long story short, i don't know how to support my husband AND protect myself and my children from her emotionally abusive behaviors. i undertand the cycles of abuse and have worked thru much in my life already, but this has me stumped and exhausted. it's time for me to find community in this. all responses are welcome!! : )

thank you
jill : )

[Lisa McCann]

JIll, I'd like to talk with you privately, if you'd like. Please e-mail me at [e-mail] or call [phone]. I feel your pain....have been through similar family situations. --Lisa

jill said:

hello. i found this network because i've been feeling VERY stuck with a situation involving my husband's mom. long story short, i don't know how to support my husband AND protect myself and my children from her emotionally abusive behaviors. i undertand the cycles of abuse and have worked thru much in my life already, but this has me stumped and exhausted. it's time for me to find community in this. all responses are welcome!! : )

thank you
jill : )

[Lisa McCann]

Hello Kaspalita!

I'm sorry that I didn't respond to you post until now.....I really wanted to think about this encounter some more, and your comments were very helpful in that regard. It's a terrible feeling to be helpless in the face of such suffering, but as you point out, the value of listening and being present with the person should not be overlooked, even if that's all that can be offered at that moment. It's hard to watch someone in pain, but I have to remember that everyone works through difficulties in their own way, and may make decisions that I wouldn't make in the same situation. And of course, the Buddhist path is all about the problem of suffering and how to, as poet Kenneth Rexroth says, "see life steady....see it whole." Many thanks for your remarks....they are great food for thought for me, and I'm sure others as well. --Lisa

Kaspalita said:

Hi Lisa,

I don't know what the 'right answer is, but I appreciate the difficulty of the situation you encountered - I've met a small number of people in the situation you describe, before and after becoming a Buddhist, and in my most recent encounter I found myself feeling very powerless to help the individual. Partly because they felt like they had explored all possibilities and none were what they wanted - but what they wanted was for their partner to suddenly transform into someone they weren't, and it was unlikely this was going to happen - and yes, by staying in that situation, and perhaps by how they were reacting they were helping to keep the cycle going.

I don't mean to imply that they were entirely responsible for the situation by any means, and if the response you described above, from the men in the group, really was "it's happening to you, it must be you fault" then this really is going too far.

Buddhism clearly talks about our conditioned mind, and we are conditioned both by our own thought patterns and actions, and by things in the world around us. There's a real mix of internal and external conditions, things we can have some control over, or influence, and things we can't.

I hope this doesn't come across as a justification for oppression - more that some of the potential to change an oppressive situation lies with the oppressed party. But I think this requires a great psychological strength, that someone in this situation may simply not have, and where do you draw the line? It's a judgement call, if the person is being physically harmed, (or even is some cases, emotionally harmed) the best thing is to get to safe place.

In the situation I recently encountered, this person was unwilling to consider this as an option, then you heave to think about other ways of supporting them, sometimes just listening, sometimes helping them explore different ways of reacting.

I suppose I want to underline again that if this leads to a master/slave relationship or something, it's not the way to go at all, and perhaps this is what you were afraid would be happening above? That being open to changing to 'not upsetting her spouse" would result in an abusive relationship of a different kind....

I think I also want to say that in any situation where someone is depressed/dejected/going through some grief or stress, and important question to have in mind is something like, where does this person find meaning in their life, what's important to them - where do they place their faith?

I think the situation you described is difficult, what if someone does open up, and you don't know what to do, or no one in your group has experience in this sort of thing? Maybe just really listen - it might be that they haven't told anyone this before and that just talking about it can help them.

One time, I spoke to someone for a long time, on the phone, they were very upset, and at the end of their conversation told me about their abusive relationship - then they quickly ended the call. I never heard from this person again, but I could feel that it was an important step for them just to be able to tell someone. And a powerful step, once someone has opened up in this way, very quickly, you may not see them again....

I should say that I don't have a lot of experience in this area at all really, but I hope this helps a little. I'm really sorry to hear that in this case the lady went away feeling awful, it's hard to know exactly what one can say - the situation they are in is really awful, so of course they will feel bad, sometimes we just need to find a way to hold them

[Lisa McCann]

Hi Mudita!

Your comments really hit home for me. I was recently at a talk by a respresentative of New Kadampa Buddhism, which I believe has a Tibetan orientation, which was also sponsored by the department of women's studies here at the University where I work. While I didn't volunteer this story or my question, many students in the women's studies program questioned the speaker about this very topic--in a Buddhist belief system, is it OK to leave an abusive spouse? And while it's hard to wait for the months (and sometimes years, as you point out) for a situation to change or resolve in some way, it's what we are called to do as human beings in connection with others--a type of engaged Buddhism, to my way of thinking. Thanks so much for your comments--Lisa.

Mudita Lisa Davies said:

Hi Lisa

I echo much of what Kaspa has written, but will add a few things as I am doing a counselling placement with an agency that works with victims of abuse and have often wondered about this.

It is hard to say what a particularly Buddhist response to spousal abuse should be. Obviously, harming someone is against the 5 basic precepts so should not be condoned in any way. There is no paricular taboo against leaving a violent spouse in Buddhism, so it would be OK to counsel someone to leave, I feel. I don't think the Buddha would ever suggest that abuse was OK, and certainly it does seems wrong to me to suggest someone has brought abuse onto themselves.

The issue is quite complex and difficult, as you have noted though. The person may not want to leave for many reasons, so as Kaspa said, non judgemental listening can sometimes be the most helpful thing to do. The goal of Buddhism is liberation, freedom. So, in such a situation, what can we do to support someone's freedom? Perhaps in this case it is the freedom to choose to change their situation, and to act. I feel that listening is very helpful, not giving too much advice beyond ensuring that the person is safe as they can be and that no children are being harmed, empathy, and if one were being overtly Buddhist, perhaps some suggestions of readings that could be inspiring, or just being together during a practice session. Kindness goes a long way.

Freeing oneself from abuse is often a long and drawn out process, perhaps taking years. One conversation may not be successful, but warm and accepting friendship can possibly lead to that person being able to make the changes they need to.

Mudita

[Stripe Demarest]

And while it's hard to wait for the months (and sometimes years, as you point out) for a situation to change or resolve in some way, it's what we are called to do as human beings in connection with others--a type of engaged Buddhism

Whoa - I think I might be misunderstanding. This sounds as if it's an abused person's "calling"to remain in an abusive situation.

One of the people who introduced me to Buddhism had a few things to say that were hard for my Catholic-guilt-ridden self to grasp as I struggled with a similar situation:

1. Do no harm (be compassionate) to YOURSELF. What would you do/say/think if it were someone else being treated this way?

2. If you have a broken arm, you do not "sit" with it, accepting it as-is. You have the bone set and casted - accepting each part of the process as it occurs.

I still wrestle with this, now safely out of the situation. Mostly, I do believe it's a very personal matter: only the individual involved can say if Right Action is staying or leaving. Life presents plenty of opportunities to work with pain without us needing to cling to them. To use an extreme (and trite) example, take concentration camps - inmates HAVE to stay. Given an open gate though, they should leave. On the other hand, leaving your spouse because you didn't like their cooking is *probably* not Right Action.

In between the extremes, I think there's a lot of reflection that only the individual involved can do. Reminding someone that compassion should be equally applied, and simply listening - these are good things.

[Kaspalita]

Hi,

I'm not Lisa, (obviously) but I think her comment about waiting, is from the point of view of the friend of someone who is in an abusive relationship, rather than the person in the relationship.

From my own of experience of speaking to people who are, or have been, abused I know how difficult it can be for them to even imagine leaving their partner.

There can be all sorts of issues around this, from not realising that you might be helping to keep the situation going, or very practically a huge fear that there simply isn't anywhere to go. I was speaking to someone recently whose partner told her that he knew where all the women's refuges were, for example. And she believed he was telling the truth.

As a councillor or friend this can leave you feeling very helpless.

[majid khan]

I just couldn't support a faith that would give this kind of counsel as a response to suffering.

perhaps there is no need to stop supporting the faith, but there is a need to stop supporting the people...

Hope it is all going well.
Majid

[Kaspalita]

Majid,

Can you say some more about what it is you are objecting to here? I don't think anybody is advising someone to stay in an abusive relationship, but that, if you supporting someone in an abusive relationship, it's important to have patience.

[majid khan]

HI kaspalita.
The first line in my reply is a quote ( without the quotation marks!) from the passage above.
I've interpreted it as being a kind of disappointment with the 'faith', whereas often negative situations brought about within a particular tradition are not a feathure of the tradition but of the people who practice.

Though perhaps I have misinterpreted what was intended...
majid

[Dharmavidya]

As a therapist, I am not very happy with terms like 'abuse'. They assume that I know what a proper 'use' would be and whether a person has infringed it or not. A therapist is not a lawyer and should not think like a lawyer. If they do the therapy will not be therapy. At best it will be advice. A therapist has to understand human nature in more depth than that and that includes all its darkness. Give me almost any standard and you will find that most people have at least been accomplices in infringing it. Read the sange-mon. People do what they do. Some people sometimes kill. Some people sometimes lie - in fact most people do sometimes. There is danger in closing one's mind to somebody because they have been 'bad' - let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The therapist, of all people, must work hard on getting the beam out of his own eye.

People are often not well behaved. However, there is always a reason. A reason is not a cause, it is a set of conditions. Buddhism tells us to try to understand things in terms of their conditions. Often it is difficult. Often we cannot see all the conditions. If we could see all the conditions, then, in principle, we could understand why it made sense to the person to do what they did. That is prajna. As a therapist one is often privileged to have a person open up their life to you to such an extent that one sees the conditions that nobody else sees. When one understands in this way that is a basis for compassion, karuna. At such points there can be an opening between client and therapist that is quite amazing - like a divine presence. A therapist works with the person in front of him (or her - I'll say him as I am a man). Whether the person in front of me sometimes seems like a victim or sometimes seems like a villain, I am aware that these are ephemeral judgements. My task is to understand the situation more deeply and to get to the meaning of why/how it is as it is. The client benefits (a) from the insight (b) from the experience of a degree of depth in the therapy that is rarely experienced in any other relationship, (c) from learning how get to understand life in depth, and (d) from the reassessment that is inevitably involved of the other players. In the course of therapy a person may learn to perceive and esteem the others who make up their life in completely new ways. As a result the client may make decisions about what to do. The client might re-engage with a person they have become alienated from or they might decide that they no longer have any business being with somebody who previously fascinated them. The therapist does not aim to make the client make such a decision - the therapist simply tries to understand what is going on and how it makes sense in terms of the conditions. The therapist is much more in the mode of "well, that's interesting" than in the mode of "what must the client do". In this way the client retains full responsibility for his or her life and experiences full commitment to and involvement in their own acts.

As therapists it is no use being squeamish. Human beings do terrible things. The situations that clents bring are commonly of the kind that the vinaya refers to as one's that should be "covered over with grass" - in other words, situations in which everybody has acted badly. I have done therapy with people who have committed all manner of sins and been involved with people who have done all manner of sins to them. It is not my job to pass judgement - it might be somebody's job, but it is not mine. It is my job to understand them. And to understand the people in their orbit too. Sometimes a client may come and describe a terrible situation. If a person is continuing to live in a situation where somebody else is being systematically cruel to them, I am very interested to know why they are doing that since, obviously, the apparently rational choice would be to not do so, but I really do simply want to understand, not persuade them to do this or that. I am also interested to know why they are telling me about it - after all they don't have to. Whatever the client says is said for a reason. It is intended to have an effect on me. I have to feel that effect (samjna) but also have enough distance (asamjna) to be able to discern the persuasion. I need to see what is going on in the room as well as what is going on in the client's life. In the life situation, perhaps the person is afraid to leave - if so I must take that seriously. Perhaps the person thinks some greater good is served by staying - I must take that seriously too. Although I must take what the client says seriously, I must not stop there. If the client's existing formulation were adequate they would not be coming to see me. There has to be more to it. The client and I are engaged in finding out what that 'more' is.

It may seem politically improper to say that a person has contributed to their own misfortune, but as a therapist one is not there to be politically correct, one is there to understand in depth and help the client to understand in depth what they are doing with the life conditions that they have got. If I do not do that then there is a good chance that even if the client deals with the current situation, in a year's time they will have wound up in another that is just as bad. More philosophically, if I assume that the client has not contributed then I construe them as a victim and reduce their chances of taking hold of the situation. Sometimes, of course, a person really is a victim - as in the case of war refugees, for instance - but even then each has taken the situation in a unique way and it is that unique stamp that I need to understand and appreciate. It is in that appreciation that the therapist's esteem and love for the client resides and where healing power works.

Buddhism does not say that a partner should stay with a cruel spouse nor that they should leave. Buddhism says that a person should see deeply into the situation and make the most wise and compassionate decision. The role of the therapist is to facilitiate the gaining of such wisdom. The decision has to remain in the hands of the client. Reasons do not constitute causes - there is no 'must' in these situations. That they are invidious is, however, undeniable.

[Ixchel]

Where to start in response to the above postings? As noted by contributors, the issue of partner/familial abuse is complex, in terms of developing understandings of the dynamics involved and in our attempts to respond when faced with such suffering.

Domestic violence (behaviours and actions that cause physical, mental, economic, sexual and spiritual harm and suffering) is present in all societies and all communities irrespective of age, class, gender, culture, religion. ethnicity etc. Violence, including so-called domestic abuse, is indeed part of the spectrum of human behaviours.

I do chose to use the term 'abuse'. I recognise that there is a value judgment in using that terminology. However, my judgement is focussed towards challenging the actions and consequences of such violence, not on condemning the individual. "Hate the 'sin', not the 'sinner'"

For me to be engaged, as a Buddhist, as a woman, as a human being within society, my starting point is that although it is not possible to access all the information or perspectives involved in any given situation, there are core values that, for now, are my guidance, my framework for interacting and simply being in this world. These core values are influenced and informed from many sources and experiences and enriched by Buddhist teachings. Yet, often, when faced initially with a situation that I perceive as injust, my reaction springs from a deep, heartfelt pain to witness the suffering we humans inflict upon each other. After that (hopefully!) comes a more measured, perhaps more intellecual, more thought -full interrogation of presenting and underlying circumumstances.

However, in this imperfect world, and a foolish being, I cannot in all conscience witness harm to others and not name those actions amd circumstances that cause suffering as unacceptable. How else will we, and others, be motivated to become engaged in challenging injustice, of any kind unless we can say openly, "This is wrong"?

On encouraging personal reflection in order to break a cycle of abuse:

"It may seem politically improper to say that a person has contributed to their own misfortune, but as a therapist one is not there to be politically correct, one is there to understand in depth and help the client to understand in depth what they are doing with the life conditions that they have got. If I do not do that then there is a good chance that even if the client deals with the current situation, in a year's time they will have wound up in another that is just as bad" (Dharmavidya)

One one level, this stament echoes earlier comments by Mudita and Kaspa:
As Mudita (and Kaspa) noted above, "Freeing oneself from abuse is often a long and drawn out process, perhaps taking years. One conversation may not be successful, but warm and accepting friendship can possibly lead to that person being able to make the changes they need to."

On another, I find this statement disturbing and distressing and potentiallly open to a different interpretation and respectfully ask for clarification. For years, those experiencing domestic violence (ovewhelmingly, though not exclusively women) have been told that they 'must have asked for it '; that they 'must have provoked it'; that if only they had somehow done things differently, they would not have been attacked and abused. Surely the responsibility for violence, for abuse, lies with the primary aggressor, with the perpetrator of violence? Any decisions made by those suffering abuse will be dependant on many factors, both internal and external, including access to housing, safety of dependent children or adults in the family, economic support for basic resources as well as making life changing decisions perhaps after suffering years of attacks on self esteem and confidence.

On agency and victimhood:
"More philosophically, if I assume that the client has not contributed then I construe them as a victim and reduce their chances of taking hold of the situation" (Dharmavidya)

To live within a domestically violent relationship, women make daily decisions in order to survive. They develop and utilise many strategies as they attempt to predict and avoid abuse. They watch the aggressor's face to try to anticipate the rage, the kick, the punch. They try to meet conflicting demands, only to find that the perpetrator makes and changes his 'rules' and stated expectations. No matter what the woman does, she inevitably 'infringes' those 'rules' and that is used by the attacker to justify his violence.

And for those women who are raped by partners or ex-partners, can I ask in what way these woman contributed to being raped?

To live within or to leave a domestically violent relationship is to be more than a victim; it is to be a SURVIVOR. Sadly not all of us do live to tell our stories.

Information:
Women are much more likely than men to be the victim of multiple
incidents of abuse, and of sexual violence: 32% of women who had
ever experienced domestic violence did so four or five (or more) times,
compared with 11% of the (smaller number) of men who had ever
experienced domestic violence; and women constituted 89% of all those
who had experienced 4 or more incidents of domestic violence. (Walby
and Allen, 2004)

• Women are more likely than men to have experienced all types of intimate
violence (partner abuse, family abuse, sexual assault and stalking) since
the ages of 16. And nearly half the woman who had experienced intimate
violence of any kind, were likely to have been victims of more than one
kind of intimate abuse. (Coleman et al., 2007)

• 54% of UK rapes are committed by a woman’s current or former partner.
(Walby and Allen, 2004)

• On average 2 women a week are killed by a male partner or former
partner: this constitutes around one-third of all female homicide victims.
(Povey, (ed.), 2004, 2005; Home Office, 1999; Department of Health,
2005.)

Finally:
On 'real' victims:
" Sometimes, of course, a person really is a victim - as in the case of war refugees, for instance..." Why are war refugees afforded the status of 'real' or valid? Is it because they didn't want to be assaulted, attacked, maimed or displaced? Perhaps they didn't 'ask for it'?

In sadness

Ixchel